Episode 21: Marta McDowell: The Reinvented Gardener / Writer
A business trip detour to poet Emily Dickinson’s home planted a midlife pivot idea for Marta McDowell. She transitioned from a career in insurance to horticulture, and now she’s the author of five books focusing on writers and their gardens. She talks about how she prepared for her exit from the corporate world by taking classes at the New York Botanical Garden, her first steps toward becoming an author, and a surprise moment in the media spotlight.
Topics included:
Credentialing for a new career through evening and weekend classes
Finding the niche that speaks to you
Establishing credibility as an author
Success comes in finding similarities between your own life track and the subject you write about
A moment in the media spotlight
The value of online learning for both students and the institution
Exploring new paths, and feeling free to course correct
Marta McDowell teaches landscape history and horticulture at the New York Botanical Garden and consults for private clients and public gardens. Marta's new book, Unearthing The Secret Garden: The Plants and Places that Inspired Frances Hodgson Burnett, will be published in October 2021. She is the author of Emily Dickinson's Gardening Life, The World of Laura Ingalls Wilder, New York Times-bestselling All the Presidents' Gardens, and Beatrix Potter’s Gardening Life.
Resources:
Transcript:
Marta McDowell (00:38):
If you have an inkling of what you might want to do next, you know, try to find your new flock. The people that I worked with day to day were wonderful people, but they weren't people who knew a lot about plants or gardening. So if you can join some kind of a group to try to find that new team, that's great.
Betsy Bush (01:04):
If you've been listening to this podcast, you know we talk about career pivots and midlife opportunities, and retirements filled pursuing the passions you set aside for your serious career. If anything is stopping you from taking a first step towards that new life you envision, I invite you to listen to my conversation with Marta McDowell because where she is now is not where she started out. Marta is a popular instructor of landscape history and horticulture at the New York Botanical Garden. She's a consultant and lecturer, and she's also the author of five books, the newest of which is just out now: Unearthing The Secret Garden about the children's classic and its author published by Timber Press Marta. I am so happy to have you on the latest version.
Marta McDowell (01:59):
Happy to be here, Betsy.
Betsy Bush (02:01):
It is, you know, the summer I took your on your online class. We know each other, but we'd never actually met in person because I took that wonderful landscape history, landscape, design history online last summer, summer of 2020, uh, when so much of us, so many of us were looking for outlets and pursuit, some ways to break through the isolation and your class was just such a balm. And it's just so wonderful. So I'm, I'm so I'm so glad that we are reconnecting this way. This is just really nice. Um, that first class session, when, of course everyone introduces themselves, you introduced yourself as someone who had come to the world of landscape, uh, and garden design a little late, if at least it wasn't your first career.
Marta McDowell (02:56):
It is true. This was very much a second career for me. You know, I guess I would say it was my midlife crisis move.
Betsy Bush (03:07):
What was it you were doing?
Marta McDowell (03:09):
Right out of college, I started working at Prudential. So I had a career on the operations and technical side of the insurance industry and I stayed there for 21 years. So the move to gardening. Well, a friend of mine there said I was going from leading to weeding. So it was a little different. I'm always interested in gardening.
Betsy Bush (03:37):
Was that always a side thing, a hobby, or how did you decide to, to make that move? What, why, why landscape and why gardening, et cetera?
Marta McDowell (03:47):
Well, from the time I had a place of my own, I always love to garden. I was really bitten by the bug, but it was something that I shoehorned in when I had time. And I think like many people after you spend a couple of decades working in an office job, you start to think that maybe there's something else. And so my mind started wandering off in that direction a few years before I actually made the switch.
Betsy Bush (04:23):
So were you doing some reconnaissance? You know, what could I do? How could I, you know, how could I be more active in a garden setting? Or were you thinking of, you know, being a garden designer or were you interested in horticulture? What, what were those early steps when you were thinking, Hmm, maybe I want something else.
Marta McDowell (04:46):
So it's always good if you can prepare the soil. So I had started in my, uh, you know, I hate to call it spare time, but in the hours that I was not actively engaged in renewing remunerative, if I can get that word out, we're immune or alignment. Uh, I did start to take classes, uh, at the New York Botanical Garden. So I was going nights and weekends. I remember, you know, I was taking mostly design classes. So at the time we weren't doing design on the computer, we were primarily doing it with pencil and paper. And I can remember getting on flights for business trips, with these big drawing tubes. Like, you know, it's a big plastic tube with a strap and it had my, my vellum in there and I had my pencil case and a little packet of tools and I'd work in hotel rooms at night and I get off the plane, get in my car and drive to the Bronx so that I could make it to my evening studio class. It was a little crazy, but it was a way to start feeling like I was getting a credential because I wasn't done working. I still needed to, you know, work for money. So I felt the need to get some, you know, some professional creds. Uh, and that was one way to start. I wish I could tell you though, Betsy, that I had only one plan, uh, I, I, you know, my mind was going in multiple directions, which it tends to always has. And so I was also thinking about writing at that point.
Betsy Bush (06:48):
Well, I was going to ask you that because your writing is it's really remarkable and to be able to combine both the, the gardening interest and the writing. And, and let me just kind of run down your, were you an English major? I think I've wanted to ask you that for a while.
Marta McDowell (07:07):
No, I was actually an American studies major, which is, let me call it a hodgepodge. It was perfect for me because I got to take everything that had the word American in the title, which included literature, history, music, uh, film, uh, the American best seller I could go on, but you get the idea. It was like, it was a great deal of fun. Uh, so I always did a lot of writing, but no, not an English major.
Betsy Bush (07:36):
You know, I asked because, uh, the, um, the unearthing of the secret garden, which is being published in September, which is about the time this episode will drop as your brand, the, your latest book, but the one before that Emily Dickinson's gardening life really got, you have a wonderful review here. And I want to just, just read this. This is from the Wall Street Journal: A visual treat, as well as a literary one, Emily Dickinson's gardening life will be deeply satisfying for gardeners and garden lovers, connoisseurs of botanical illustration. And those who seek a deeper understanding of the life and work of Emily Dickinson." Now I have to say Marta, I think Emily Dickinson is one of the most written about and researched American writers. And yet you found something new to say about her, which I think is amazing.
Marta McDowell (08:32):
And it's interesting that you picked that one Betsy, because Emily Dickinson was really where it all started for me in terms of garden writing. And I was on a business trip. I remember the day it happened, I was driving across Massachusetts visiting insurance agencies, you know, sort of delivering the corporate message that, you know, anyone who's worked in a corporate setting understands that, uh, and I had an open afternoon, you know, I had some meetings in the morning and some at night. So I had a space on my calendar and I stopped at a rest area on the mass pike. It's the, you know, the interstate that goes across Massachusetts. And I picked up a brochure for the Emily Dickinson Homestead as it was called at the time. And I picked up the payphone that's how long ago this was and called them and said, can I still make a tour? And they said, yes. And I got up there to Amherst. And I was actually the only one on the tour and the person took me around. And, you know, she, she introduced me to this idea of Emily Dickinson as a person who loved plants and flowers. And I had never encountered that in, you know, in the various times in high school and college that I had studied Emily Dickinson. And it just struck me that this is something that I had in common with this really iconic poet. And I just thought this would be marvelous to write about. So we went from there. I was lucky because I have, uh, in my family, a niece who was a literary agent and I went to see her and she said, well, you're nobody. And you have to get to be somebody. If you want to write nonfiction,
Betsy Bush (10:34):
That's a message for everyone. Right?
Marta McDowell (10:37):
So she goes, she was very nice about it. You know, she tried to be gentle and say, well, this is what you'd have to do. You'd have to get some, uh, you know, some published clips you'd have to have things that had been published. Uh, you would have to get a platform to sell a book on. You'd have to have, you know, start talking about the, the topic area. And so I did start very small. I started writing for a senior citizen free publication in my county, wasn't paid, but you know, I had a little column and then I started sending out query letters to various places. Most of which said no, but a few said yes. And it went on from there and eventually became, became the book that you saw.
Betsy Bush (11:28):
That's really the kind of serendipitous, you know, connections that happen sometimes. Right? You, you, you realize, you know, something clicks, Emily Dickinson was also a Gardner. No one's written about her gardening and what it meant. And then you start looking at all the imagery in her poetry, and there's a lot of references to flowers and things like that. And then, you know, it clicks and then you found a way to get to that point. And that certainly wasn't even, was it your first book? Um, or was it was the book that is written, it's a, it's a redo of an earlier book, is that,
Marta McDowell (12:09):
So the first serious article I wrote about this connection between writers and their gardening interests was an article for a British garden journal called Hortus. And then somewhat later I wrote a book for McGraw-Hill called Emily Dickinson's gardens. Uh, you know, it was my first attempt and I was really lucky because I got a do over a, you know, what, 10, 20 years later, I guess, went and Timber Press said, you know, we'd like to do a new edition. Would you have any interest in that? And it had been so long out of print by McGraw-Hill that they were quite willing to give me the rights and, you know, then switch it over to Timber Press. And it was, um, it was wonderful to have that have that second chance.
Betsy Bush (13:05):
Well, the other things let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, because you've also written about Beatrix Potter her gardening life, the plants in places that inspired the classic children's tales. Of course, Beatrix Potter of Peter rabbit frame. And also, um, the world of Laura Ingalls Wilder, the frontier landscapes that inspired the little house books. And in fact, I saw you briefly on a, uh, documentary that aired on PBS, on Laura Ingalls Wilder, who had a very interesting life. And, um, she was also a, uh, later in life author though, she was, uh, helped along quite a bit by her daughter, which is something that has come out, I think more recently. But, but, but you, you really seem to be catching the Zeitgeist, if I can say that you seem to be able to sense the trends in this kind of interest and what I've been reading about your upcoming book, the one that's dropping now about the secret garden, which is just such a classic, beautiful story about a little girl, who's kind of abandoned to this, uh, caretaker, uh, sort of, uh, she's a ward of someone who's quite elderly and this, this mysterious house. It's very, it's very English in a way, right? With, uh, kind of this mysterious house. And there's a walled garden that no one can get into, but this little girl makes a friend and together they, they escape into the secret garden. And, and there's so much the, the renewal. Will you tell me what, what you like about that story and what you found out about the author Francis Hodgson Burnett.
Marta McDowell (14:48):
Loved the book, the secret garden. It has this really spoiled young girl named Mary Lennox. I think I, I really, you know, I sympathized with her having been, I think, fairly spoiled as well. And, uh, she discovers a garden. It is, as you say, Betsy, it has this sort of Gothic feel. Uh, someone described it as a Jane Eyre for children, right? She ends up at her Uncle's estate in Yorkshire, very grim. He's lost his wife. There's a lot of mystery around it. There's a locked garden. Uh, you know, she's not supposed to go there, but you know, through this series of circumstances and her own explorations, she finds the key, uh, and discovers gardening as, as a healing. Right? So, and it, it expands on that theme. Uh, so this is someone encountering gardeng as a child, the author, Frances Hodgson Burnett was someone who came to gardening later in life that had appealed to me. Although she wrote actually from the time she was a teenager, she was a professional writer. She wrote this book after she had had some really great losses in her life, particularly the loss of her elder son who died of tuberculosis. She also loses a garden, the first real garden that she creates. Uh, and it was a garden that she created when she was in her fifties. So, you know, again, she, she came to it late and that, that theme always has appealed to me. It was true of Laura Ingalls Wilder in terms of writing. She became a writer much later in life. Uh, Beatrix Potter had her first garden when she was 40 years old. She became a children's author somewhat later in life. So, you know, that combination, because I think I've had this real shift in, in my life track. I always find that really tempting, you know, to follow someone else's trail.
Betsy Bush (17:14):
Do we think there's a connection between gardening and writing and this the kind of wisdom and perspective you get when you're in, when you, when you've lived a bit and you're in your forties or fifties, and you've had losses and you've seen the passage of time, is there a connection?
Marta McDowell (17:34):
Gardening is certainly healing. Um, and so his writing in its way, it, it doesn't, you know, the combination doesn't work for everyone. That's not a kind of one size fits all duet. Um, but where it does, I think it has a lot of poignancy. And for me, at least a great balance because when you write you, you know what I think Truman Capote, he said a writer as someone who writes, I mean, you sit and you write, you may do it at a keyboard. You may do it with a pen, however you do it. Um, you know, it's a matter of producing words on a page. You know, gardening is something where you are tending another life form, uh, and it is responsive in a different way. For those of us who are interested in ornamental gardening, you have flowers, if you grow vegetables, which I also do, you know, you, you know, it's, there's that bounty aspect and the connection with nature that isn't really there for writing this writing is, you know, it's some of the imagination, you have to create a world and create a space
Betsy Bush (18:51):
And gardens change over time, too. You know, some, some things fade away and other things kind of take over and it's, there's always an unexpected aspect. Another interesting part of your writing is I think you're used to not being kind of in the, um, you're not used to being in the news, but there was a moment, I think last year, when you were in the news at least a little bit, uh, in 2016, you wrote a book called All the President's Gardens. Madison's cabbages to Kennedy's roses, how the white house grounds have grown with America. And there was a moment when the, then first lady Melania Trump had revitalized or revamped the rose garden. And there was a lot of criticism around that. And as someone who had written about the rose garden, you had to field a lot of, a lot of media calls.
Marta McDowell (19:54):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it was, it was surprising in a way, and, and it was difficult because it was, I don't know exactly how to put this. I think gardens really should not be, you know, the same part of the political discussion. Uh, although there are times when they have to be, and I also think people should get their facts straight. And there was a lot of criticism of, uh, you know, I think targeted at an administration, which I had criticisms of as well, but when you targeted it at the garden and it was something I knew about, I knew it wasn't fair. And so that was my stance is let's get the facts regardless of whether we lean to the left or lean to the right.
Betsy Bush (20:51):
Yeah. And, and there were also ascribing, you know, bad motives where perhaps that was not the case.
Marta McDowell (21:04):
Absolutely. And, you know, the, the, all of the right research had been done to make sure that the, the grounds of the white house were treated appropriately and they would be aesthetically pleasing. And, uh, it had actually been a garden space that had been revamped many times, uh, including since President Kennedy had worked with Rachel Lambert Mellon to design it. It had been replanted completely once during the Reagan administration. And it had been, you know, the rose plants have been changed from time to time as well. So I felt it was a tempest in a teapot. It put me in a position that is not my favorite one to be, but I did my best. And I will say that the various reporters who used my input, uh, did so fairly and quoted me accurately, which I very much appreciated.
Betsy Bush (22:05):
It's not every day gardens are in the news. So, uh, and it happened to be someone I knew. I'm like, oh my gosh, um, I'm curious to get your take on the online learning that people are able to do. Now. I know, um, as someone who's been taking a lot of online courses at New York Botanical Garden, as well as in person, uh, just the way people are able to expand their knowledge and, uh, pursue at least some exploration of new areas and fields of endeavor without leaving their homes. I mean, you had to drive to the Botanical Garden in the Bronx. I think you're in New Jersey. So that may was probably like, not all that convenient. And, and I'm wondering if you have some reflection on what it's like to on, on this, on this era, we have now of a new transit of people being able to make these transitions with the online learning that's available now.
Marta McDowell (23:08):
So it's amazing what people can do when they have to. I remember the day of the COVID lock down, uh, at the New York Botanical Garden or the COVID shutdown, let's call it. It was the 15th of March and it was, let's see, it was 2019. Is that right? Yes. I think it was 2019.
Betsy Bush (23:38):
It was 2020, a year that doesn't exist for most of us.
Marta McDowell (23:42):
So at that point I had no idea that zoom was anything other than what you did in a car. And so to, you know, I was learning from scratch. I had never taught online. I had never delivered a lecture online. I had to do things like go out and buy a headset. Um, and I had classes that were underway with students that needed to complete them. So I did my best, but it was, you know, halting. And I think by the time I got to your group in the summer, it was at least a little smoother. And you, you know, again, we're amazingly resilient when we have to be, uh, I'm thankful that I had the resources to, you know, sort of gear up and take the time to learn. I know it's been very, very difficult for some people.
Betsy Bush (24:45):
Oh, what about the students? Are you noticing a different kind of student coming in and taking classes, uh, maybe geographically different or something else
Marta McDowell (24:57):
During, during the time when people were mostly staying at home, uh, you know, which has changed somewhat? I would say that I had a much different mix of people and we always get a, a wide range of interests and backgrounds coming into the classroom at the New York Botanical Garden. But it was even broader. I had a lot of people who were, uh, you know, in the theater in various ways, designers, actors who were exploring different possibilities or coming, you know, coming just out of interest, as you say, geography, we had one student in our group that was from Mexico city. I had people who were, you know, clicking in from New England and the Adirondacks and, you know, the various beach place.
Betsy Bush (25:53):
One of my classes had someone from Bangkok.
Marta McDowell (25:58):
Yes. So that was really fun. And, you know, to me, it, it was, uh, something we had talked about for many years at the New York Botanical Garden, whether we should try to stick our toe in the water for distance learning. And instead we just got thrown into the deep end of the pool. And that's, I think that's a good thing in many ways, because it will give people access, uh, you know, nationally and internationally who otherwise wouldn't have had it, how that evolves, uh, you know, not just with the New York botanical garden, but with institutions in general. I, I'm very interested to watch and whether people, but, you know, the consumer and side of education, whether people will start demanding to have, uh, access virtual access. And whether we'll be able to figure out some way to do it in a hybrid sense where some people could be in person and some people could be at home or elsewhere,
Betsy Bush (27:04):
It seems strange the idea of gardening over online. But, but in fact, there's a lot you can learn about gardening online. And, and I think that was also a surprise, uh, you know, and, and just so many different topics. Now, when I go online to look at what they're offering, you're able to offer a wide range of topics that, um, are, could be of interest to a very broad audience that again, national or international
Marta McDowell (27:33):
Yes. And, you know, skills are still something I think best demonstrated in person where you can look over someone's shoulder. But on the other hand, uh, just, you know, an example from a different realm, I knit and knitting has stitches that are complex and a lot of them. So when I, when I need to learn one now, you know, I used to open a book, I'd open my big Vogue knitting book and try to figure out diagram by diagram. Now I watch a video on YouTube, and I will tell you, it's, it's much simpler because you are actually watching and you can do it while they do it. So, yes, I think that we have really stretched our imaginations in terms of what can be taught that way
Betsy Bush (28:25):
You must, your life now is so different from the one you led as an insurance person. And I wonder if you sometimes imagine what things would be like for you, if you hadn't left your, your job, or if you hadn't had this opportunity, do you ever think about what that parallel life might be like?
Marta McDowell (28:44):
I would be a less happy person and I'd probably have ulcers. That's what I think.
Betsy Bush (28:53):
And, and most likely Emily Dickinson's love of gardening would also probably be unexplored, you know, who knows
Marta McDowell (29:00):
That's right. Who knows that's, you know, with that, we need a time machine. We need Dr. Who,
Betsy Bush (29:08):
You know, I always finished my podcast by asking my guests, uh, what three pieces of advice they might have for others who are contemplating a similar journey, a similar pivot as, as you made. Um, and I'm wondering if you have words of wisdom to share.
Marta McDowell (29:28):
Well, we sort of started with the first one, which is if you haven't an inkling of what you might want to do next, be it as a job or as a, you know, an, an, an avocation, you know, try to plan ahead, uh, you know, try to learn something about that area, try to find your new flock. Right? So the people that I worked with day to day at Prudential were wonderful people. You know, they, they achieved great things, but they weren't people who knew a lot about plants or gardening, or, you know, literature or writing. So if you can, you know, join some kind of a group and nowadays it can, you know, it can be a group online to try to find that new team. That's great. I'd say, uh, if you're going into something new professionally, get really good business cards. Someone suggested to me early on don't scrimp on the stationary. So I got these really expensive, you know, embossed business cards. And I think it really helps maybe just in my confidence. And I guess the last thing I'd say is don't be afraid, of course corrections, because you might kind of step off. You know, for me, I was lucky because Prudential decided to, you know, they were ramping up to go public. They had been a mutual company and they decided to downsize the staff. So they really kind of funded my midlife crisis. And I had a little like cushion that allowed me to complete my program in landscape design, decide that I was a little more interested in the horticulture side. And, you know, so then I started getting little internships and first jobs in horticulture and to continue writing. And so, you know, don't be afraid to say, well, you know, I thought I was going to be interested in garden design, but I really don't want to spend my time at the drawing table. I want to be outdoors. Yeah. Change your mind, you know, shift a bit, you know, I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. So don't be afraid.
Betsy Bush (31:54):
Do you have another book in the works now that the secret garden book is just about to a,
Marta McDowell (32:02):
I have a stack of books from the library and they're all murder mysteries that have some garden or horticultural theme. So
Betsy Bush (32:15):
Murder in the garden.
Marta McDowell (32:17):
Gardening can be murder is the working title. Uh, actually it was somewhat inspired by COVID in that I needed a topic that I could work on that did not require a lot of archival access, which was very difficult, uh, when the libraries were not admitting visitors and, you know, we're down to skeleton skeletal staff. So it was something I could do in the meantime. And, you know, murder mysteries are a great, you know, they're like cotton candy,
Betsy Bush (32:51):
The garden plot thickens.
Marta McDowell (32:56):
You may be, you may be getting ready for your next career as a mystery writer, Betsy
Betsy Bush (33:03):
Martin McDowell. This has been absolutely so much fun. Absolutely delightful. Thank you so very much, uh, really enjoyed it. Thanks for the invitation, Betsy.