Episode 27: Donna Korren: This is Our Time!
At 29, Donna Korren was Advertising Manager for Vogue Magazine when the publication was at the height of its influence in the 1990’s. Now in her 50’s, Donna is encouraging her peers to stand out in the workplace as energetic, technically competent colleagues. Her vision is for an intergenerational workplace in which wisdom is shared both up and down the age range.
Donna’s Tedx talk, The Newest Workforce Disruptors are Over 50! illuminates the increasing number of professionals launching new businesses and creating second careers after 50.
Topics include:
· Qualities of the 50+ entrepreneur that lead to a high success rate
· The overlooked advantages of 50+ workers
· The value of intergenerational office culture, from mentoring to fresh ideas
· The absolute imperative to master digital technology
· How advertising to the 50+ consumer is missing the boat
· Tips for moving with intention towards your goals
Donna Korren is also the founder and President of Change, a women owned payment processing company. Her digital platform, Empty Quester™, includes a video series and articles of interest for empty nesters on a quest for a new bold chapter. She is a graduate of Cornell University.
Resources:
Change: Payment Processing Done Differently
Tedx Talk with Donna Korren: The Newest Workforce Disruptors are Over 50!
Transcript:
Donna Korren (00:39):
Ageism is a newer narrative. And I think that we lean hard on this technology piece, which is absolutely very real. I think the onus is on us to get the training that we need and not miss that piece and do the work.
Betsy Bush (00:53):
My guest today is Donna Korren. Like many women. She almost defies categorization. She's an entrepreneur in financial services. She's a thought leader in the space of re-invention for those over 50. And she's created a digital platform for empty-nesters looking for their next big adventure. She's also a parent, Donna. It is such a pleasure to welcome you to the latest version.
Donna Korren (01:21):
Thank you Betsy, for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I love what you're doing. It's so very important for our demographic and for everyone.
Betsy Bush (01:30):
Thanks. It's an interesting place to be a now because I feel like a lot of us are waking up and saying, Hey, I have decades ahead of me. I'm not ready to, you know, sit on the porch. And in the rocking chair, you know, there is still a lot I have to offer the world and the workplace and the world needs us too, which is something that you talk about in your wonderful TEDx talk, "The newest workforce disruptors are over 50." Donna, you recorded this terrific TEDx talk on the increasing number of professionals, launching new businesses and creating second careers after 50. The cultural stereotype of an entrepreneur though, is a young person who's maybe dropped out of college to work 24 7 on this new idea they have, that's going to change the world and of course that's happened. Right? Um, but you had some interesting data about people who were defying this assumption because a lot of them are over 50. Now tell me about that.
Donna Korren (02:41):
So when I collected my research for the TEDx, I was super intrigued that, um, the success rate of an entrepreneur over the age of 50, um, was almost twice as likely, uh, for that demographic to be successful than somebody who was in their thirties and the reasoning or the thinking behind it was in part the maturity, the life wisdom, the business wisdom that we bring to having been in the workforce for a long period of time, the funding that we're often able to get, whether we're self funding or whether banks and seed money is available, because they feel that there's a great amount of trust and lending us that money. And, uh, so, uh, while we perhaps are, um, seen as less youthful and energetic, which actually isn't true at all the maturity and the, um, ability to plan and execute and the, uh, calm that perhaps we bring after being on this planet for 50 years are factors that help in building a business.
Betsy Bush (03:48):
So I, I think of someone who has been working in a particular industry who has been through several business cycles, who has seen ups and downs and know that, you know, when the market drops, how many points, it's not the end of the world that, uh, you can hang in there, maybe a little flub or a mistake that a younger person might think, oh, this is the end of my career is not. And you know, maybe you have some perspective on it, right? I would absolutely rather fund someone with that kind of experience. Uh, especially someone who probably has a wide network knows people all over the place. Uh, I think of some people I know in financial world who, you know, oh, I remember that person, they used to work at this bank. Now they're at that bank and you see how people move around and you have this network of contacts that, uh, someone in their twenties does not have, and that you can call on that experience, uh, to get a new business off the ground and, uh, pitching to venture capitalists and things like that. I absolutely would rather go with someone in their fifties.
Donna Korren (05:07):
I think resilience plays a big piece in that, you know, if you're gonna go into an entrepreneurial venture, you have to be able to pivot. You have to have resilience. And I think having a history, as you say, of experiences where you've bounced back, where you've seen, where something didn't work or the pivot, you know, uh, we've had many more years to pivot, right? We've had many more years in business too, to see what works and change it up. And, um, I think that those are some of the things that go into, uh, having the tenacity or the stomach for an entrepreneurial venture
Betsy Bush (05:40):
In your Ted. Talk about, uh, becoming a parent, a mother, and wanting to devote your time to that. I think a lot of people listening to this have gone through that cycle where your kids are out of the house they're launched. Now you realize, oh my gosh, I'm at this age, but I have energy. I have something to contribute. And that also would play into, I think, the advantage of an older entrepreneur that you don't have, the childcare issues. There might be other issues, you know, with aging parents and things like that. We all have had, many of us have had that experience, but the childcare thing is a little different to,
Donna Korren (06:21):
I think that the childcare thing is a huge factor. When I was in my twenties, I was the advertising manager at Vogue and I was on a track towards, uh, you know, higher up management at Vogue and had my first child at the age of 30. And at that point, lots of decisions had to be made and a balancing act had to be tweaked. And people talk about how I was the original cobbler of, um, uh, part-time and gig activities, uh, that kept me in my career. But it changed and thinking about where I am at the age now of 56 with children fully launched and out of the house, it's kind of a, a gift because my time is my own. And those things that you may be angsting about, certainly for women and how you're going to balance your time and your priorities. Um, they're not on the table. And I think that both employers and entrepreneurs understand that this is a slice a moment in time when people have everything or, uh, quite a lot to give to their career of choice or their business of choice. And it's different than it was 20 years earlier. Uh, when family for me was, you know, it had to be my top priority. And by the way, anybody who's a working mother, family's always a top priority. Um, but the personal angst that goes along with that balancing act is sort of not there anymore.
Betsy Bush (07:48):
Also bring up an interesting point of having older workers in the workplace because they are available to mentor those younger workers. And I think that's something that we lose track of how important that intergenerational, uh, passing on of wisdom, you know, the idea of an older worker, being able to calm someone who thinks they've made the mistake of their life. Nope, Nope. Just, just, you know, let it settle. This isn't as bad, we'll find a way out of this. Um, you know, having that, that ability to bring, um, that the experience the having lived through ups and downs of would seem to me to be an invaluable part of a successful workplace.
Donna Korren (08:34):
I think it's, it's that, which is the soft skills, you know, that we're talking about the compassion, the empathy, the take breath. But I also believe that there are, that the perspectives are what make a business rich or enriched and having multiple eyes or multiple perspectives on any business is, is so much more valuable than just having this very narrow lane where you're thinking about your business. And you're thinking about how it affects you and your perhaps particular demographic. And you're just cutting off so many other viewpoints. And I go back to my Vogue years when I was the youngest person on the management team. And, and then there were all sorts of ages in between. And then it's somebody senior to me was in his seventies and even, and we were on the business side and even thinking about Anna Wintour, back in the day, we're going back to the nineties. She was always getting her inspiration from the street. And while she had relationships with all the most established designers who were, you know, uh, older, she was getting her inspiration from looking at the kids on the street, whether it was supposed to Seattle music scene or, you know, the skateboard culture. And, and that's when the conversation gets interesting. It's so very dull. And even for me at the stage now, one of my pet peeves is for us to we're in this, you know, reinvention stage. We have to break out and not just be talking to one another about what this stage feels like. We really have to be engaged with the younger generation about how we're gonna, what they need from us, what they'll take from us, um, to get in, to get entree into that. But we can't just do it talking to one another.
Betsy Bush (10:21):
That's that's, that's so interesting. Um, I went back to college. I went to Columbia university at the age of 56 and graduated last year with a second, with a second BA um, at the age of 60 and being on campus and seeing the young people, you know, I tend to call them kids because they're the age of my kids, but, uh, they're not my kids there. They were really, um, it was so valuable to see life through their eyes and to hear what their perspectives are. And I think that the mix of, of the generations is, is something that's really important.
Donna Korren (11:08):
Something sort of came to mind when you were sharing. And that is, I feel that this, that age-ism is, uh, is kind of current and kind of Western. And what I mean by that is in the Western culture, you know, ageism and that narrative, that conversation happens. But in almost every other culture, you know, elders are really regarded and engaged, uh, revered and spoken to and for, for advice and for counsel, and even here in America, I feel that that's a newer narrative because when I was growing up, there was still an enjoyment and engagement and a sharing, I think of ideas between, uh, my generation and my parents' generation. And I think that we lean hard on this technology piece, which is absolutely very real. There's no way that you're going to survive. Look at us now. I mean, here we are on a zoom, right? But that kind of up-skilling, it's offered, there's so much self tutoring, which is new for us where we can learn, uh, the technical part. And I even remember my mom who went back to work in her fifties, going to a corporation and they were teaching her computer skills. And it was at the same time my husband had joined the company and they were teaching him the same computer skills. So it's, it's really avail to us. It shouldn't be a conversation where the divide happens and we sort of allow it to be, think the onus is on us to get the training that we need and not miss that piece and do the work. Um, uh, but, uh, I think that this, this concept that there is a divide. Uh, we give into that too often. There's not so much of a divide as we, uh, allow ourselves to believe.
Betsy Bush (12:56):
Another part of this conversation has been how large the consumer sector of our economy is 50 and 60 year olds. Plus a lot of advertising, uh, executives who were, who are forming these advertising campaigns are in their twenties and thirties, and they are not speaking to us as well as they could be. Uh, do you, have you were in advertising, you, you did advertising for Vogue. What, what do you think is going on and how should consumer companies be talking to us so that they will benefit from our, uh, uh, purchasing power? Right.
Donna Korren (13:42):
So let's first talk about the purchasing power, because when I prepared for my TEDx, it was worse than I thought that the conundrum was worse than I thought, because statistically people who are 50 plus are responsible for 70% of all disposable income and one and two purchases against every category that you can imagine, whether it's cars or consumer electronics, it's even higher. It's like 80% in travel and luxury travel. And, and so statistically, um, we have all the wealth, the 50 plus demographic has all the wealth, and this is a trend that's only going to continue with our, um, disposable income in the trillions by 2024. And it maddens me, which is why I started empty Quester because it, from a business standpoint, it maddens made that 5% of all advertising is directed to this demographic. The images that are used for this demographic are so bizarre. That's the way to say it. It makes no sense. Um, and I know that our, uh, went very actively to get, uh, a new campaign going and I think higher giddy images to start changing the narrative. Part of the problem is that many of the advertising agencies, um, are filled with people who are in their twenties and thirties. And I've been told that all the requests for proposals come in, that they're really just looking to target the 18 to 35 demographic, even if it makes no sense because they don't have the disposable income to spend. And so my creation of empty quest or while it is a platform to talk to other empty nesters on a quest for their bowl, next chapter is absolutely to reach the advertising community and my PSA or my tagline. Um, is, Hey, are you talking to me because they're not. And, um, uh, I've been speaking for a long time to many of my friends in the advertising agency world to say, Hey, can we get this off the ground? Um, I think there's a, a real opportunity for brands to pay attention.
Betsy Bush (15:49):
How do you wish to be addressed by the consumer, by advertising? What do you want to see? What would speak to you?
Donna Korren (16:00):
It's a great question, Betsy. Um, I would like them to have an understanding of my lifestyle, you know, in the past year, uh, I give up my suburban home. I bought a home in New York city, which when we talk about things past their prime and knowing better that, you know, resilience knowing that New York is going to come back strong. Um, I'm actively engaged in a lot of the purchasing decisions for my daughters who are in their twenties. I, uh, appreciate fashion. I appreciate food. I will travel again when, uh, COVID is further behind us. So I would like them to understand, you know, my vision is that, uh, they would show imagery that reflects the life that I'm leading and, um, and not some gray hair and image of, you know, sitting idly, smiling in my computer, uh, looking at pictures of the grandkids, which I don't even have yet. I think that what resonates the best for me, our ad campaigns, there are so few and far between, but that are intergenerational. And, you know, even some of the hottest fashion companies got smart about that. And even Dolce and Gabbana, you know, put a mix of people. It makes it more interesting. So, um, you know, I'd certainly like to be included in the conversation in the imagery.
Betsy Bush (17:24):
You know, I think a lot of what we're working on here, Donna, with our quest to reinvent ourselves and that sort of thing has to do with, uh, with longevity. And I think a lot of, a lot of us aren't really tuned into the fact that, uh, we have been given through public health and medicine and a focus on individual health and wellbeing. We've been given an extra 30 years of lifespan. Um, and I think a lot of people aren't really tuned into it, but if you're 50, you could very well live to be a hundred, you know? And so, you know, this idea of your, your working life going from maybe 22 to 65 is really not realistic anymore. Uh, especially since, you know, from 65 to 95, do you really not want to do anything substantial? Do you really not want to add to your financial life? Uh, there are a lot of these questions that I don't think people have tuned into.
Donna Korren (18:36):
Well, I'm the product of two parents who are no longer here. Uh, both of home, my mother worked into her eighties and my father worked into his nineties. And, um, that was a combination, I guess, a financial need and staying vibrant and engaged. And the reality is, uh, I don't, uh, unless one is very wealthy and able to, you know, rely on past, uh, earnings, uh, for sustaining the rest of their life. The reality is if you're in your fifties and you're looking at another 40 years on this planet, you're gonna have to work. And, um, so I do think that, um, people who are in this demographic are quite aware of it. I think that companies are starting to understand that this is a pool that they can draw from the work of Carol Fishermen Kohn, who is the creator of I relaunches, uh, fascinating to me. She has, single-handedly probably put a hundred thousand people in the 50 plus demographic back to work by educating companies and creating programs with companies like American express and, uh, Goldman Sachs and, uh, you know, educating them that this is a pool of talent that wants to work and needs to work, can be retrained. And it's going to be our reality. You know, if you look at population trends, it's our reality. Uh, it's only going to grow. Um, so I think it's a combination of people waking up themselves. I think we're more woken up to that reality and, and, um, and just, uh, society understanding that there has to be a place in the workforce.
Betsy Bush (20:13):
Tell me the name of that, a woman that you, you mentioned,
Donna Korren (20:17):
Carol Fishman Cohn, whose, uh, organization is I relaunch.
Betsy Bush (20:22):
I relaunch. Okay. I'm going to include that in the show notes and maybe have her as a guest on the podcast. If, if she's available. Um, I want to talk about your latest venture. You've also launched a new company, uh, in the financial services sector. Can you tell me about that?
Donna Korren (20:41):
I think it's worthwhile to share with you sort of where that came from. I had spent 25 years in publishing, um, in different capacities while raising a family. And, um, eight years ago, a good friend of mine owned a merchant services company and he suggested that it would be something for me to learn and do. And so in my forties, I gave myself the opportunity to learn something that had never made it on my radar. I didn't think of myself as a financial person in any way, shape or form. And I learned it. And part of the reason I learned it was for the flexibility that it offered, which was incredibly important while raising teenagers and eight years, uh, just to, to back up what payment processing is, is that any company that accepts payment by credit card or ACH and their business goes through a company like mine, uh, to, um, process payments. And there are fees associated with that. And what we do is we lowered those fees. And so I learned this industry and was keenly aware that there were very few women in this industry and that it's a great industry for women, uh, because of the flexibility. So, uh, last year I went out as change, which is a women owned, uh, payment processing company with a play on words, keep the change, change more women in the industry, and it's been fun. Um, and I have a mission not only to help, you know, companies in general, but really to help women own businesses, to save money on this very overlooked expense. It's been fun.
Betsy Bush (22:09):
How interesting. So, uh, companies, so, uh, you know, a small retail business who is accepting credit cards has to pay a certain amount. You know, we know that a lot of businesses prefer cash because they don't have to pay the processing fee. But so your processing fee is lower than the average, the industry average is that right?
Donna Korren (22:32):
Yes. And Betsy, when you speak of it, you talk about small retail and of course, small retail. But what I'm really talking about is, uh, large companies that might process, you know, $5 million a month and the savings for a company like that in the work that I do is so material that it could actually save them enough money to hire another employee. And what I lean on and lean back on is my years of corporate experience. So, um, you know, the goal is really to help, uh, large companies with large volumes save significant money in their business. And I draw on skills that I had as a professional back in my twenties and thirties, you know, all throughout.
Betsy Bush (23:12):
So it sounds like it's, it's a real disruptor model, uh, as we, uh, we love that word, the disruptor, um, you know, idea that, uh, kind of upends things and, and gets people looking at something very differently.
Donna Korren (23:28):
The goal is to get more professional women to, to join me.
Betsy Bush (23:31):
Oh, that's great. That's great. Well, I hope that that goes well for you. And tell me about empty questers what's that about?
Donna Korren (23:38):
So Empty Quester is really where my passion lies. It's what gets me up on my feet in the morning, and it's still a work in progress. And I created it four years ago when my youngest child went off to college as sort of a place where I could write and blog. And then for fun, I, um, hired an intern and did lots of interviews with other people, just like, you know, Betsy, people who are reinventing themselves, who were on this quest for their next meaningful chapter. And, um, and I'm really trying to think about where and how I can create this community. And, um, that will then resonate with brands and to become a face and a voice for the, um, uh, brands who want to reach this demographic. So it is my absolute love and passion project. And on in 2022, that's where I hope to, uh, see this, uh, concept grow.
Betsy Bush (24:32):
That's 2022. We're already looking forward to new year. You know, I know that I know the feeling of kind of, um, as a podcaster, there can be a long runway to getting things lifted off and, uh, headed to where you hope they are going.
Donna Korren (24:52):
And I will share with you because I think it's really fun. A lot of what I believe we need to do is always push past our fear. And so I've now recorded two tic toks on Empty Quester, oh God, not sure where it's going to take me, but knowing like that, uh, it's, uh, unchartered ground. And, uh, if younger people are doing it well, that might be a place for them.
Betsy Bush (25:15):
You know, it's interesting. You mentioned tick talk and I kind of was a little offhand about it. Uh, I did have someone tell me a young man, um, who has kind of been looking at what I've been doing with interest. And he said, you know, you need to be on tick-tock and okay, so we're going to push past our fears and see how we can make tick-tock work for us, because this is, this is what we need to do. We can't just, um, you know, I think about the early days when people started using email and that there were, there were folks is, oh, I don't use email. Right. You know, I, I don't do. And it's like, you know, you need to, you need to evolve and change. And you know, if you want to label yourself a dinosaur, I guess you can do it if you want. But I think a lot of us are like, no, um, it can be surprisingly easy to learn some of these, uh, programs and platforms and use them well to our advantage. Um, when I was at Columbia and I would have a question about something and I would ask a classmate, uh, she would very often pick up her phone and Google the answer. I'm like, oh, well, I could have done that. They do not have a, you know, they're not born with some kind of instinct that we do not have, but they've learned how to use technology to their advantage, maybe faster than we have. You know, if you have a question, pick up your phone and Google it. And, and, and that was, um, that was, that was a good, easy lesson. And, and also there are a lot of good resources online. If you need to learn new programs, new platforms, uh, the world is open to you. There are all sorts of community college classes, or, you know, trade associations online that can, that can help you, but you need to make the first move to bring yourself up to date. Donna, I would love to have three pieces of advice to my listener who is on the road to reinvention and maybe looking at trying to return to the workplace or start a business as an entrepreneur. What can you offer us?
Donna Korren (27:38):
So I think that three guiding principles for me, I guess the first one would be intention. And I liked the word intention better than goal, because a goal is something that you could miss misfire and feel badly about that intention is something really clear. You know, you, you know what it is, you've gotten there through their mindfulness or meditation, or really thinking, giving yourself time to, uh, think about what you want to materialize and manifest. And, um, in 2018 I created a dream board and all it was was a visual expression of things that I wanted to accomplish. And it wasn't a goal, but it had, uh, it had a picture of me, uh, on a Ted stage and it had a picture. It had a picture of something that was published in, um, the New York times. And I wasn't published in the New York times, but I was published in the Washington post and I didn't do a Ted, but I did do a TEDx. And that's what I mean about intention, right? Getting really clear with your ideas and mapping them out and knowing what they are. That's one, um, another word that I like, um, is activation, which is different than a plan, because again, you have to be able, if you have a plan, you have to be able to pivot from your plan and you might learn very quickly if you're agile that, oh, that thing I thought I was going to do now, I'm not going to execute on that. But an activation is creating a list for yourself of how you're going to materialize some of the ideas that you have. And that could be, um, you know, just, uh, staying elevated and, um, writing out lists of who you're going to speak to. And when I, um, created any of my initiatives, I didn't have anybody to put on a call for me or to, um, you know, uh, a great contact or an N you know, it really all had to come from my own activation and making lists and lists and lists of people that I would speak to and doing lots of research and staying activated on a daily basis. So have your intention stay really activated and the last piece, and I believe this so firmly create your community, have an intergenerational composition, because that's, what's going to keep, I believe things moving along, don't just keep in the conversation or the lament, the very real amount of age-ism, but just widen your net and create a, an intergenerational community. I belong to several, I belong to, Hey mama, which is mama's of all ages, uh, working, uh, women. I belong to something called mobi, which is an incubator of young, brilliant people in their thirties. And somehow they let me in, um, either create one or find one, but keep creating inter intergenerational communities, uh, that will help support your journey.
Betsy Bush (30:21):
Wow. That's all great advice. Um, I've heard about the vision boards and you know, what, I really need one for my podcast. I love that. I love that. Um, and you're bringing a whole new set of thoughts and ideas to, to me, and I hope to my listener and Donna, I'm just really inspired and, you know, you've, you've been great. You've been a great guest, and I've really enjoyed talking to you on the latest version. And I'm looking forward to following everything you're doing. I really,
Donna Korren (30:56):
I appreciate you having me and Betsy, the work that you're doing is so important and so elevating and exciting, um, and it will move the needle on having people in our demographic feel empowered. So thank you.
Betsy Bush (31:10):
I, I appreciate that, Donna. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.