Episode 16: Living Life Purposefully with Susan Williams
Join your host Betsy Bush as she speaks with Susan Williams, the founder of Booming Encore. As a baby boomer herself, Susan wanted to create resources to support baby boomers as they navigate retirement and aging. They discuss reviving retirement, Susan's journey to founding Booming Encore, her book “Retirement Heaven or Hell: 9 Principles for Designing Your Ideal Post-Career Lifestyle” and her experience with blogging and social media. Booming Encore can be found at boomingencore.com and on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn.
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Transcript:
Betsy Bush (01:01):
Are you a baby boomer? Are you a child of the sixties who is now well into their sixties or even seventies facing their later years with excitement, trepidation, a combination of both, you're going to really be interested in what my guest, Susan Williams has to say. She's the founder of the social media hub, Booming Encore, a digital media hub and leading source of information on all things relating to retirement and aging, which is what the boom is doing. Now. Susan is also the co-author of the book, retirement heaven, or hell, which will you choose. And she's based in beautiful Montreal, one of my favorite cities, Susan, welcome to the latest version.
Susan Williams (01:46):
Thanks so much, Betsy. It's great to be here.
Betsy Bush (01:49):
Great. And I just want to say before we get too far into our conversation, that if my listener is younger than say 55 or 60, you want to listen to what Susan has to say about the road ahead because it's coming up fast
Susan Williams (02:05):
That's for sure.
Betsy Bush (02:07):
You have such an interesting story about how you started booming Encore. Can you just bring us up to date? It wasn't the main thing you were doing when you started?
Susan Williams (02:18):
It absolutely wasn't, Betsy. I sorta kind of fell into this, believe it or not. My background, actually, I spent 28 years in the corporate world and that time I was you know, doing a number of different roles and responsibilities and sort of a senior leader positions. And I left the corporate world and started consulting. And once I started consulting with the one thing that my clients were continually asking me about with social media, social media, and at that time I didn't even have a Facebook account, I don't believe. And so I thought, okay, I'm a bit of an experiential learner. And so I actually learned through doing, and so the best way for me to do this is to jump on board and figure this stuff out and learn. And I, then I thought, okay, well, what am I actually going to do? And on, and at that time I was sort of in own career transition and I really didn't find the resources that I was looking for, what I considered highly respected, credible, you know, valuable information specifically for a later career change. And even, you know, as we age sort of the resources to help us age well. And so I thought, well, if I couldn't find it, I would create it. And so I launched Booming Encore. It's coming up about nine years now. And at the time I just started, I just started, I started my social media channels. I started blogging. I started writing. And what was interesting is for the first three years, I actually struggled a bit with doing this. And the reason was is that it really didn't match what I thought I was, which was, you know, previous consultant slash you know, corporate person. And all of a sudden, I'm now blogging on retirement and aging. And, and I sort of did this as a ghost in some ways for the first three years, I didn't even sign my name to anything. So nobody knew it was me. And then one day I thought, okay, I got to figure this out. And I was actually inspired by someone who was younger than I was. And what they were talking about is how the younger generation are doing something with what they're calling "slash careers." So for instance, someone may be a business analyst slash songwriter, or someone else may be barista slash dog walker. I mean, because they were actually doing all these multiple jobs, whereas when we were in our careers and it wasn't really a well-respected or looked upon when someone was doing what they called moonlighting. And so I thought, you know what? I need to change that perspective. I need to actually embrace what I'm doing. I'm spending a lot of time and energy on it. I was absolutely enjoying it. I was meeting so many people and so I took the step and I actually updated my LinkedIn profile to be the founder of booming Encore. And as they say, the rest is history. As I often joke fast forward eight years and YouTube can become a social media influencer. Wow. So it has definitely been a labor of love. One that I've personally enjoyed, I've met so many interesting people and that's now pretty much what I do full time.
Betsy Bush (04:56):
That is really Inspiring. There's so many topics around the subject of aging and retirement, but also using that time, not just to like think, oh, I'm going to kick back and relax for the next 25 or 30 years. If you retire at 65, you could live to 95. Right?
Susan Williams (05:15):
Absolutely. And that's, what's so exciting about this. I mean, retirement, as we used to view it, you know, as being this time of leisure and unfortunately the marketers still kind of promote that, you know, to just sit around and take vacations, or, you know, you see a flowing silver locks as people walk down the beach, I mean, that's a long time and you just, you have to fill it with some sort of purpose or some sort of activity that's going to keep you engaged. And so, you know, there's 20 or 30 year vacation just really isn't a reasonable any longer.
Betsy Bush (05:41):
What do you see people doing that, that interests you in this age of transition or the second life almost that we have, we shared a post on LinkedIn, you and I about what do we call retirement? Because I hate the word retirement.
Susan Williams (05:57):
It's so funny. You mentioned that the very first blog post I ever wrote was basically we would need to rename retirement. And at the time I came up with "revivement" because I thought this is such a great time to actually go back and revive some of those old interests that you may be, you know, put on the back burner for a period of time, everybody was busy with their jobs, their children, their families, you know, potentially having to be a caregiver for older parents. I mean, all of those other things demanded your time and energy. And all of a sudden we've now got this, what they call "affluence of time." And it's an opportunity to fill it with things that maybe you haven't done in a while, you know, painting or volunteer work or work. Part-Time doing something you really enjoy. I mean, there's just so many options. And I think that's the beauty of this is that now we've been given this extra time through, you know, medical research has given us the gift of longevity, but I think it's now up to us and our responsibility to, to fill it with something that's, that's valuable and worthwhile. And actually you know, also contribute.
Betsy Bush (06:52):
You know, that's the through line of this podcast. So many of my guests have gone back to being musicians, being, you know, writing that novel that you've always wanted to write or exploring new paths as for being an artist and things like that. Do you see any trends in this time period?
Susan Williams (07:10):
I think there are so many people that are actually carving out new paths that maybe never thought of before. For instance, one woman that we profile her name is Ernestine Shepherd, and she basically became a bodybuilder at the age of 76. And it was announced as the oldest bodybuilder by Guinness book of world records. I mean, it was something that was never thought of before. And what's really interesting in her story is she didn't even actually start bodybuilding till she was 56. So, I mean, it's these types of stories that are extremely motivating and especially on the physical front you also see so many people that are giving back, doing things that you know, are contributing. Often we think, for instance, legacy, we think about our past, but a lot of people are actually starting to think about their legacy of what are they going to give to the future. And so they're spending their time, you know, contributing back to causes that they believe in, you see artists that are coming out that are older and have an actually never painted before on a full-time basis. And there was one interesting gentleman that we profiled, for instance, as part of our Retirement Rebels section he actually is painting using accessible things. So he actually is creating these beautiful works of art, but he's using Excel, which is a software program. And so that completely turned the art world up on his head. It's like nobody ever thought of that. So you're seeing innovators as well. Another woman in their eighties learned how to code and created an app because she couldn't find one specifically for older people. So this is where we're seeing people doing things that you would never have necessarily thought possible. Or some of our ageist attitudes may have limited our thinking. And, and, and I think what it's telling us is, you know, the only limits we put on our aging are the limits that we put on ourselves. And I think that's, what's really exciting.
Betsy Bush (08:48):
That is amazing. I think when you think of what this extra life gives to us, when the issues that take up so much of our time when we're younger: raising children and getting those careers up and running to finally, well, this was my story. When you, my last kid went off to college and I'm like, what do I do now? I'm I feel energetic. I feel great. And I, but I want to be challenged. And I went to Columbia and got a second, got a second undergraduate degree. And I found it kind of rewired my brain. And it's, it was just such an, a useful activity also because it brought a lot of other things into focus that were going on around me. Do you find, you know, that sparked, you find resistance among some people's like, I just want to relax. I don't want to get into something new.
Susan Williams (09:41):
And do you know what? That is absolutely fine. I mean, I think that's the beauty of it is that at this point in our lives, we have choices. And so what may be right for me may not be right for somebody else. And I think that's where we all need to reserve judgment. I mean, some people, if they want to just sit and relax and I don't like to use the word, do nothing, but I mean, that's what they want to do then I think they have every right to do that, but there's a lot of other people that would get bored very quickly. And so one of the things we really try and promote, and especially through our book, was actually think about what you're retiring to. And we outlined a number of different steps because the last thing you want to do is get, we've worked hard to get to this period of your life and then having no idea what you want to do. And we've actually seen, you know, the research that saying that people without a purpose or without some meaning in their life or, or relationships that they've got established, it, it really does affect their mental and physical well being and ultimately their longevity and their satisfaction with life. So this is why we strongly recommend that people actually stop and think about it. And if that's their choice and they're going to be happy with it, Hey, you know, all the power to you. But at the same time, a lot of people would not necessarily be that happy. They'll be bored out of their minds. And they'll be wondering, what am I supposed to be doing at this point in their life?
Betsy Bush (10:53):
If the last thing we want to bring into this as pure pressure competition, it's like, no, this Is don't, don't, don't, don't feel, You know, like you have to be, you know, world's, you know, most active retiree or something, you know, but there are also issues that a lot of people face going into retirement that may be, they are not really prepared for. And certainly one of those issues is financial.
Susan Williams (11:21):
Um. Yeah, it, it it's. And, and unfortunately there are a lot of people that I think are missing out on the financial aspects and they're really not prepared. And that is quite a scary situation in a lot of ways. But there's also some research that's saying that a lot of people that think there are prepared will end up actually living in poverty. So our recommendations and some of the things that we try and promote is like to take your retirement for a test drive financially, actually, you know, break it down. Where do you plan on spending your money, like that? So this ties into the aspect of the non-financial of retirement. So what do you plan on doing in retirement? And can you afford to do that in retirement? And the other thing that we also try and highlight to people is the fact that you don't have to do full-time retirement. I mean, there are part-time jobs. There's ways to take a, you know, something, a hobby, and actually make some money at it. There's so many different ways now. The whole gig economy for instance, is actually ideal for baby boomers. You know, you can pick up part-time work when you want to, it's it can be seasonal. It can, there's so many more options now. And I think even with the pandemic, the fact that many people can work from home and where that whole remote working aspect has just opened up the doors for so many people on what they can actually do. And so I think we really need to rethink retirement, rethink how we do our financials, rethink it more from a cashflow perspective. And, hou know, how are we going to fund this retirement for this period of time? I mean, you can't expect to work, you know, 30 years and then pay for a 30 year retirement. I mean, it just doesn't make sense any longer. So, me have to come up with different ways and we have to become creative. And I think we also have to take our head out of the sand and actually, you know, look at the cold, hard facts and the numbers and see where we are and what are we actually going to do to close some of these gaps?
Betsy Bush (13:01):
You know, someone who thinks they're going to, you know, travel endlessly, you know, those are dreams. People have put off some of those fun things. Think when finally, when I'm retired, I want to be able to travel. And then, you know, maybe those numbers don't work for them. It's tough these days, especially with a lot of people not getting pensions anymore. Right?
Susan Williams (13:23):
Absolutely. And also healthcare, I think we way underestimate what we're going to need for healthcare. There was a stat that said basically those 65 and older are 50% plus the spend on healthcare. So to think that you're not going to need healthcare is very, very limiting. I mean, and that's why, again, we really try and help people focus on the preventative aspects of health, you know, eat well, exercise, do all of these things so that you can enjoy your retirement one in good health and two, you know, minimize hopefully some of the health issues that you may experience.
Betsy Bush (13:53):
So, so many people as they get older, you do get frailer and you can be one fall away from a kind of very different retirement. Exactly. I think a lot of, you know, it's funny thinking about the baby boom, and it's a large cohort, right? From 1945 to 1964, I was born in 1960. And I have to say, I've never really felt a part of the boom cause the boom was always way out in front.
Susan Williams (14:19):
Yeah. I'm with you. I'm definitely at the tail end as well. So I, when I found out I was a baby boomer, I was quite surprised. Because I know that it was those other people. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Betsy Bush (14:29):
You know, cause they got to, they got the fun '60's dance music, and the, of course the demonstrations and you know, here in the states, the draft and the Vietnam war sort of thing. And you know, you got a lot of our, you got a lot of draft Dodgers going to Canada. So I always felt like we were behind and didn't get that fun. But the thing about the boom is they are way behind on technology generally speaking, because you know, that all developed, you know, when I was well into my professional years. And I think if you didn't grow up with a lot of the computer usage and moving into the digital technology and the internet, you really do feel left behind.
Susan Williams (15:14):
Yeah, there is some truth to that, but at the same time, that's a bit of a fallacy as well in the sense that I don't know the number right off the top of my head, but it's something like 64% of baby boomers own smartphones, which is a significant number. Now what they're using it for is quite interesting. I mean, they use it definitely as a phone and looking up information. But what's also happened is a pandemic has forced a lot of baby boomers online for buying purposes, either buying the groceries online or, you know, shopping or whatever. So that is also increased. So the situation is definitely changing, but I think a lot of people have to be aware that how baby boomers you use a technology is very different than the other generations. You know, for instance, when it comes to purchasing things online, baby boomers want to know who they're, they're actually dealing with. They want to be with a trusted website. They want to know that there's going to be service if they need it. Versus some of the younger generations are a little bit more freer on, you know, do I have to know them? No, I'm just going to place the order. And I trust that it will come. Security and privacy, absolutely critical for baby boomers. They want to make sure that, you know, again, they're, they're dealing with people that they believe we'll treat their data with the respect that they're they're expecting. So there are definitely generational differences, but they are coming online and, definitely using the technology a lot more than I think a lot of people actually anticipated.
Betsy Bush (16:35):
Do you think when it comes to employment and trying to get into the gig economy that the technology maybe being comfortable with the technology is really important as far as, you know, creating a social media profile and doing the LinkedIn sort of things so that you can be really fully participating in the digital world, which is how so many of us get to know each other and how you might get, you know, important networking contacts and things like that.
Susan Williams (17:07):
Absolutely. Like you think about it, Betsy, you and I connected over social media. I mean, that alone says, you know, it is out there, it is happening. And so to try and pretend that I'm not engaged in that, or I'm not going to do that. It's very limiting, especially if, for instance, you were looking for employment. I think people need to recognize that social media is about developing your personal brand. And so by using these social media platforms, you're actually out there and expressing who you are, what you believe, what do you, you support? I mean, it's an opportunity to showcase what you can do. And so to not utilize, this is definitely a limiting factor for anybody who is looking for a sort of any sort of employment or creating a business or, or doing anything of that nature because that's where everybody is. And so you've got to go where the people are, right?
Betsy Bush (17:52):
I've even heard that if you want to, if you've written a book and you want to get a book published, the publisher will say, well, how many followers do you have on Instagram? You know, what can you bring us as opposed to, we're going to buy your book and then we're going to market you and we're going to make you famous or whatever you're in charge of your own personal brand, to an extent that may be some people don't really realize and kind of trying to build that up. That doesn't happen overnight. That has to happen over a period of maybe, you know, years.
Susan Williams (18:23):
It it, and it definitely is. So for instance, like with booming Encore, I mean our growth was strictly organic, which means basically we didn't pay for any of people to follow us. So we've got very high levels of engagement as a result of it because people found us because that's what they were looking for. And it wasn't like necessarily pushed, but it did take a long period of time. I almost call it like it's a kitchen sink strategy, It's that drip in the tap. It's a little drip at a time, but at the same time, it's also a great opportunity. I mean, as much as everybody would love to go quote viral with a post or something like that, it considered a blessing in some way, because it's a great way to try different things and see what works and what doesn't work. And you're not going to skin your knees and fall down in front of a large audience in the beginning. And so when you have fewer followers or fewer connections, you can try different things without, you know, at risk of, you know, potentially causing yourself some harm. So, you know, it does take time and it does take commitment and it does take consistency for sure.
Betsy Bush (19:16):
That's actually great advice to someone who's started a podcast recently because that's always the hardest part. You know, I tell people, you know, doing the episodes is easy. It's getting the word out there and the marketing and just, how do you find listeners is one of the biggest challenges. So, you know, you know where I am and you're, you know, a few years ahead of me, but that's good advice to anyone who's trying. This sort of thing is to know that it doesn't happen overnight. And maybe it's a good thing because you may not be ready for something.
Susan Williams (19:46):
Exactly. It's one of those things, be careful for what you wish for, because you may go viral for the wrong reason. Right? And so, you know, by at least testing things and trying different things and getting more comfortable, you, you, over time, it's, it's like developing your skills, right? It, it grows. And as your experience grows, so does your capabilities, so that's just something to keep in mind.
Betsy Bush (20:07):
That's great. You've had an really interesting post on, you know, there's so much in the well, let's say in the cosmetics world about anti aging, you know, oh, let's anti-aging skincare or whatever, and you had a great post about why don't we have pro aging.
Susan Williams (20:27):
Yeah. This is one of my pet peeves. I hate the word anti aging anti means against, and I'm thinking like, let's get realistic. Nobody's anti-aging we all want to get older, but what's really, the paradox is none of us want to actually get old. So, I mean, it's this sort of dilemma and I'm thinking, how can you be anti-aging? And it just doesn't make sense. And secondly, why not embrace pro aging? And why don't we have products that are specifically supporting the aging process and calling amen to that versus this industry. And it's a massive industry and it's actually titled anti aging industry. And so it's, I I'm trying through our, our methods to, to wake people up to the fact that like, we need to change our views and our perspectives of aging age-ism itself is still one of the only forms of discrimination that is still readily accepted. I mean, you think about people's language, you know, you're having a senior's moment or, or, you know, they're an older person is considered frail automatically. I mean, it's our whole lexicon., Or you go buy a card. And if it's somebody over the age of 40, all of a sudden, it's all downhill from here, you know, that sort of thing. So you know, we're really trying to promote the idea that aging is something to be celebrated as something to be revered and it's something to be respected.
Betsy Bush (21:40):
So many of the guests I talked to and I've interviewed recently a woman who started a stand-up comic comedy career at the age of 56 when she was unexpectedly laid off. And one thing she is able to bring to her comedy and her storytelling is just her life. If you have someone who's 18 or 20, what do they really have to talk about? Except things that happened to them in middle school or high school, and maybe, but when you're 56, you've got a lot to draw on and wisdom and a story that just doesn't have you know, chapters one and two, but maybe chapter 10, where you get to a different place than maybe you thought you'd get to when you started out. And why isn't that something that we can embrace fully?
Susan Williams (22:31):
No, and you're so right. Betsy, you know, the experience that we have, I think is what makes us time of life unique. I mean, there's actually studies that show our confidence actually increases as we age. And I think it's because we don't really worry about what other people think anymore, or at least not as much. And that can be truly a blessing. So it's, it really opens up the doors to try different things. So for instance, in that woman's case, I mean, unfortunately she lost her job, but on the other hand, maybe it's a mixed blessing and that she's now doing something that she's possibly, always wanted to do, but maybe never had the chance or, or the opportunity to do this. And so that's what this time of life can really bring.
Betsy Bush (23:06):
We've talked a bit about a phenomenon that you've identified as the invisible woman. Tell me about that. Yeah.
Susan Williams (23:14):
It's actually a syndrome it's called the invisible woman syndrome. And basically what it is, is unfortunately, as women get older and they're not viewed as being at quote as beautiful as they once were or no longer of child-rearing it society sometimes has this way of then making them invisible. And so it is an actual syndrome, but what I love is the fact that it doesn't, it doesn't have to be real. I mean, and you're actually seeing it and I'm seeing so many women and I almost call it the power years are coming into power years. They're no longer burdened by not that, you know, childbearing is a burden, but I mean, there are definitely responsibilities that are, can be burdensome of raising children or looking after a household or having to be a caregiver to an aging parent or, or whatever. And they're finding this freedom and as similar to yourself and your experience, I mean, they're doing things that they really want to do and they're taking control of their lives. And they're saying, heck, I'm not invisible in actual fact, watch me roar. And, and we're seeing like, there's these older women coming into their own and actually standing up and taking their space and actually doing things that are making a significant difference, both to society, as well as, you know, combating this whole syndrome and saying, no, we're not buying it.
Betsy Bush (24:26):
I'm with you there. I'm wondering if you have three pieces of advice for those who are, you know, entering the golden years, you know and, and just as you were saying that the the language we use tends to be so, so negative, right? The sunset years on the porch with the rocking chair, I'm seeing Katherine Hepburn and the Henry Fonda on the porch, you know, On Golden Pond. What three, what advice do you have for those who are, are entering this time of life, who are not going to go gracefully? You know, who want to make the, most of it.
Susan Williams (25:09):
The most of these years, I think first and foremost, focus on your health. I mean, so much of what we want to do is often tied to that. And so, you know, exercise eat well, you know, make sure you're keeping your weight at a reasonable, a reasonable size make sure that you're checking and getting your checkouts frequently so that you're on top of what's going on. I mean, it's so critical. Their health is often the things that will allow us to do the things we really want to do. And so I think it's really our responsibility to take control of our health, actually manage it and make sure that we're paying attention to it. I mean, especially as we age the things that we use to possibly be able to get away with when we were younger you're not necessarily going to be able to do the same when you're older. So I think it's our responsibility to take control and advocate for our own health and actually manage it. The second one I would suggest is: stay curious. Learning is something I think we need to think of as being lifelong. When you're curious, you're interested when you're interested. You're interesting. And so eat by continuing to stay current to S to stay curious about learning new things. It one, it not only helps you from a brain perspective because it keeps your brain active. It keeps your brain growing, but also it keeps you engaged. It keeps you interested in different things. And I think that's so critical. And then the third piece of advice that I would say is to make sure you stay connected. So many people have got their social lives or, or, or contacts within their work realm. And when they leave the work environment, often they leave those social contexts behind and they don't have anything to go. And so, you know, it's really critical to develop your social network and your social circles outside of your work. There was a great initiative done in a small town in Northern Ontario. And basically the concept was who would be on your list of eight. So are there eight people in your life that you can actually pick up the phone and call and talk to, and you can stay engaged with? And if you don't have a then start thinking about how are you going to develop that because relationships are so critical, the one they keep you emotionally connected, socially connected. It has a great support system. And especially, unfortunately there's a lot of research around aging and loneliness and how devastating this can be and how it can affect your mental health. So get on this sooner, rather than later, don't wait until you hit a point where, you know, you are lonely or you are alone. So we strongly suggest develop these social circles now, before, you know, when you, because you're going to want them later.
Betsy Bush (27:39):
You know, and that's one of these kind of soft skills that we don't really think about at, at, at an earlier point in our lives when we're so career focused. And it's all about the hard skills that you bring to jobs and things like that, but staying connected. I mean, I think it's something women probably do more easily than men.
Susan Williams (28:01):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And what's what I find is really fascinating is that sadly, that guests in a lot of ways, there's higher rate of divorce now for over fifties, like it's almost tripled, I think over the last, you know, 10, 15 years, something like that. And what they're also finding is that women are not as eager to get remarried, which I find is, is quite fascinating. So on two fronts. I find it a one. It means that they don't feel the need to be necessarily financially supportive, which I think in some ways is a, is a win. I think that says a lot about women in the fact that, you know, we've found our independence over the years, but also they're just don't want to go back and become the, you know, the keepers of the house and, and the social conveners and things like that. But what's interesting is the men are going, but wait a second, that's what we were expecting. And so when they're finding these women who aren't wanting to get married, you know, they're because they're not used to having to do those, some of those things. And so you're absolutely right. Betsy, I mean, women tended to be more social the same time. I think it's something that men definitely need to really focus on as well, especially, you know, as they head into retirement because so much of their identity and a social network often were tied to their careers. And when that's pulled out, they're basically left standing alone, which is not a good situation.
Betsy Bush (29:16):
Right. And where the wife was the connector to the community, to the, you know, to the friends, maybe even the family. And if the wife isn't there, the, the man may not have any idea of what to do.
Susan Williams (29:29):
And it's unfortunately that [the] rate of increase for mental health issues for older men is, is also going up quite high. And this could be a contributing factor for sure.
Betsy Bush (29:41):
I recommend Booming Encore, tell us how, how we get there.
Susan Williams (29:47):
We're on all the, all the social media channels. So if you just type booming Encore, pretty much a Twitter, we're very, very active there. So we do daily updates, not only of our own content, but also from around the web. We're all definitely on Facebook. We're on Instagram, Pinterest, YouTube. And of course our website booming encore.com. So you'll find everything there. And we are truly blessed. We have a number of fabulous contributors and subject matter experts who share their knowledge and expertise with us that we're so delighted to be able to profile.
Betsy Bush (30:15):
Oh, that's fantastic. And you have a beautiful website that I find very clear. It has a very clear, clean look to it and it lots and lots of great contents. So Susan Williams, congratulations, you know, I'm putting this all together and running booming Encore because you're definitely meeting an informational Need that is out there. It's been a pleasure to talk to you.
Susan Williams (30:40):
Thanks so much for having me, Betsy.